Multi tasking
#1
I moved this over from my gingerbread thread.

Gideon's mom mentioned she saw a video of how to teach your dog to wrap himself up in a blanket. After I posted a video of my dapper duphus trying to figure out how to get a toy chicken out from under a comforter. She said it was super simple.  You teach them to pick up and hold a corner of the blanket and then rollover. 

Here is Keller's issue. He CAN multi task. Take "name of toy" put it on or in "name of furniture or container"  Go to named location get the toy put it in name location. BUT we have not figured out how to get him to carry something strange without turning it into a toy. Then there is adding motion like bringing it somewhere possibly following me That requires : take strange object, hold on to it, walk it somewhere possibly with me.   

There in lies the problem in my ADD brain. It likes to complicate things. There is the  challenge of getting him to put the blanket in his mouth. Not playing with it. Then adding in holding it while doing yet another action. That is three things: taking it an object not normally put in his mouth, holding it, then rolling himself. Then there is rewarding for actions involving his mouth ant  the timing of it.   I try to avoid rewarding with food if I can play instead. It seems easier to me on lots of levels. Keller gets digestive issues if he has too many rewards or  if I feed his food as rewards. He swallows without chewing and chokes. AND other unpleasant issues.

I have Karen Pryor's picture book. What kid doesn't like picture books....right? Maybe after I get Christmas down next weekend.
“If having a soul means being able to feel love and loyalty and gratitude, then animals are better off than a lot of humans.”

James Herriot
― 
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#2
OMGoodness, yes! I have had a number of dogs that were impossible to teach to hold something without chewing it, which is actually why I used the word simple instead of easy. There are some things I just wouldn't try to teach some dogs. Also, I have had dogs that mentally could not handle being given food treats. They lose their minds!! That really doesn't work when the legs are wrapped up in a blanket, recipe for disaster, if you ask me. I'm perfectly fine with my dogs not having some tricks. Currently, Gideon is the only one of mine that I would even think of trying to teach that trick to, but he is one of those narrow and deep chested BCs. They don't like to roll over. He will do it, but he doesn't like to, so I'm not going to add something more on there and ask for it more often. That's just not me.
Gotta love 'em.
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#3
(01-14-2018, 12:59 PM)Gideon\s mom Wrote: OMGoodness, yes!  I have had a number of dogs that were impossible to teach to hold something without chewing it, which is actually why I used the word simple instead of easy.  There are some things I just wouldn't try to teach some dogs.  Also, I have had dogs that mentally could not handle being given food treats.  They lose their minds!!  That really doesn't work when the legs are wrapped up in a blanket, recipe for disaster, if you ask me.  I'm perfectly fine with my dogs not having some tricks.  Currently, Gideon is the only one of mine that I would even think of trying to teach that trick to, but he is one of those narrow and deep chested BCs.  They don't like to roll over.  He will do it, but he doesn't like to, so I'm not going to add something more on there and ask for it more often.  That's just not me.

So true, for me tricks are for fun and enrichment first and foremost. I am also not going to ask my dogs to endure something just for the sake of the trick in itself. Max is a hoot with rolling over and I might give this blanket trick a go with him. I know what you mean by "simple" V "easy". When you described the method I thought, "what how simple is that yet it never dawned on me before". I guess because it looks so impressive my mind defaulted to assuming it must be a more complicated technique.
Jasper is not one to enjoy rolling over at all and I long ago decided that I would not bother trying to add it to his bag of tricks. They are all so different and have different strengths and vulnerabilities. Unless a behaviour is important to their safety and well being I don't tend to push the point and ask for things they are not comfortable with.
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#4
I just asked this on the FDSA Facebook group. I'm trying to shape a retrieve with Ember, but she slows down after just a few repetitions of putting something in her mouth. I have a few ideas on what might be causing it (spacial pressure, deference, the fact I'm using one of her toys, etc). So I asked basically when do you go from "only what the dog enjoys" to "okay dog, we've done what you've wanted to this whole time, it's my turn to decide"? I equate it to feeling like having a dominating room mate with a distinct difference in ideas of "good TV shows". One day, I want to watch what I want to watch, not what you do Tongue.

Bad thought, I know. Ember and I just almost never see eye to eye on what might be "fun". So annoying sometimes.
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Gotcha Day: November 14, 2015
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#5
Firstly I do NOT force my dog into “tricks”  They are not taught with the intention of creating a dog and pony show. He is helping me noodle out how they teach service dogs certain skills. Believe it or not a lot of these “tricks” can be built off of to form service dog tasks. They are bonding communication educational for us. Use it or lose it I have heard. SECOND every dog needs to find a job. He found his to be encouraging me to engage and stimulate me. They are not mere tricks to him. They are a job he relishes. So if it means rooting around for ideas and sources to make his job more interesting and challenging. What is the point of having a dog that can think at the end of a day of hiking, herding, agility or whatever activity. Trifan your wording could have been better. You have a way of sounding off-putting


And yes GM Keller has the same deep chest narrow back. Not fun rolling over for him either. But striking to look at the profile and on the run.
“If having a soul means being able to feel love and loyalty and gratitude, then animals are better off than a lot of humans.”

James Herriot
― 
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#6
(01-14-2018, 05:47 PM)Keller-b-border Wrote: Firstly I do NOT force my dog into “tricks”  They are not taught with the intention of creating a dog and pony show. He is helping me noodle out how they teach service dogs certain skills. Believe it or not a lot of these “tricks” can be built off of to form service dog tasks. They are bonding communication educational for us. Use it or lose it I have heard. SECOND every dog needs to find a job. He found his to be encouraging me to engage and stimulate me. They are not mere tricks to him. They are a job he relishes. So if it means rooting around for ideas and sources to make his job more interesting and challenging. What is the point of having a dog that can think at the end of a day of hiking, herding, agility or whatever activity. Trifan your wording could have been better. You have a way of sounding off-putting  


And yes GM Keller has the same deep chest narrow back. Not fun rolling over for him either. But striking to look at the profile and on the run.

 OMG What is with the attitude. I did not even refer to you, anything you said or do with your dogs or the why's and wherefores there of. I did not even use anything resembling the word "Force".
"Dog and Pony show" WHAT ? If you have taken offence at the use of the word "trick" well there is not much I can do about that other than to suggest you don't "search" for an excuse to be offended. I have never come across a dog community that didn't have a general understanding that most of what we teach dogs can be thought of as a trick whether it is a useful skill or just for fun. I note that "both" GM and I use the term trick and I don't think in either reference it was used to diminish the behaviour/trick or it's importance in any way. I find it quite interesting that you have addressed me specifically in your fuss over using the word "trick". I was acknowledging and responding to GM's comments quite directly, not even a new post on the thread subject which could be interpreted as being directed at anyone else, yet you have managed to make it about you. I am dumbfounded ! I found the explanation in respect to a dogs physical build and certain tricks very informative and it was that ALONE that prompted me to reply "DIRECTLY" to GM. Furthermore, I  referred only to me, my dogs and my needs and solely within the context of the specific comment I responded to. 
To be perfectly honest I had not even read "your" comment and even if I had it is highly unlikely, I would have addressed you at all. Once bitten, twice shy and all. I promised you a long time ago that I would not comment on your words and I have kept my promise without exception.
Sorry if you think my wording could have been better but perhaps you could not interpret everything I say as being about you and plunge straight into unjustified defensiveness and accusation.

I tell you what, I'll do you favour and say goodbye to contributing to the forum right here, right now and stay right out of it from here on in. It's one thing staying out of a single members way but if I must also refrain from "directly replying" to others on threads you have commented on, then what is the point ? It is pretty much impossible to prevent a person from taking offence when they are hell bent on being offended by you. I have read my comment over and over and cannot find any reference to you, what you do, what you have said or any reason why you should take it personally. Thanks for having me folks, it's been great but this nonsense is just ridiculous.
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#7
Wow! Sorry, But I didn't take what Trifan said in any way except exactly what Trifan said she meant. I find her comments educational and insightful and would hate to lose her perspective. And as for using the word trick, I call every behavior you teach any animal a trick, from sit and heel, to walking on front legs and putting front feet on the steering wheel to look like they are driving, from a horse carrying a rider, to a goat holding out it's hooves to be filed. They are all tricks. And even though I find some tricks to not be my bag, I haven't found any that truly have no value, even if the only obvious value is an animal that is willing to try new things.
Gotta love 'em.
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