Rescue/Working/Barbie collies...Oh My!

[Patti]

Hello,
I recently acquired a BC pup and had no idea the maelstrom I was possibly entering into, in a sense.

I've had a BC, a BC mix, since 1981 previous to getting the new pup (who's name is Roly, BTW.)

I guess my first BC was a rescue in a sense. Previously, I had rough collies (the Lassie type) and had just lost a rather expensive blue merle pup. I had taken her to an outdoor party and she freaked out upon seeing a bonfire and lit out into the woods, not responding to my calls. After much fruitless searching and advertising, I decided to visit the animal shelter just in case she was there, despite my phone inquiries being told to the contrary.

While looking through the runs of dogs, I happened upon a pair of sister BCs that were supposedly there for 'running cattle'. It had been 2 weeks since I lost the other dog, and I had a feeling I wasn't going to find her (which turned out to be right) so I decided to check out the BCs. I picked out the one I liked the best and 'interviewed' her in the lobby. She was such a sweetie, I fell in love instantly and was amazed at much more aware, trainable and easy to live with she was, as compared to the rough collie I had lost. Now the RC was pleasant enough, just well...a bit of an air head to put it bluntly. Needless to say I have loved BCs ever since. I named her Rita and had her until she was 13.

My next dog was a BC mix. She was 75% BC, 25% heeler. I guess it could be said she came from 'working lines' in a sense, from a ranch. She also looked more like a 'Barbie collie' than some working types I've seen except she had a lot of 'ticking' on the white markings and some heeler type patches, but for the most part she could pass as a purebred BC.

She was also a great dog, but a bit more stubborn, nippy and obstinate than Rita, plus I made the mistake of getting her too young and she never really developed proper doggie manners since she wasn't with her littermates long enough, so having her around other dogs was always an issue. Her name was Ruby, from being born at the base of the Ruby Mts in northern Nevada. I had her until she was 14. She developed diabetes (I have my own theories on how that may have happened, right or wrong, LOL) and she was blind the last 3-4 years of her life, but despite that did pretty well. She passed away nearly a year ago, on Easter week-end.

So...enter Roly. The genuine BARBIE collie, LOL

I finally decided it was time for another pup a couple months ago, started looking around online & locally. Not having much luck. I wanted a dog that looked like my first BC Rita, and had a similar temperament. Rita was great in that she was active and agile and always up for doing things, but she also had an 'off switch' and was content just to hang out and lie around at your feet. She was also very gentle, calm and not nippy at all, loved other dogs etc.

In my search for a pup, and I wanted to find one as local as possible so I could 'interview' the pup in regards to it's temperament. As I said, not much luck, did find some backyard breeders and some BC mixes, but that's not what I was looking for, plus I had concerns about genetic issues and I'm sure a lot of BYB don't worry themselves over things like that. I put out some feelers and one breeder from MN did contact me, she had BCs from working lines, but would be shipping a pup, another idea I wasn't too hot on. Besides subjecting a puppy to that, I wouldn't be able to 'test drive' it so to speak. And I realize to each their own, and I know some prefer this type, but she had the working lines that tend to be smooth coated and leggy, which was not how my first BC was. Rita looked more like a 'Barbie collie' then these working line types, in her looks as well as her coat. I didn't know her lineage, but in 1981, I don't think 'Barbie collies' were really around then, at least not so much in that area.

Anyway to wrap all this up, I found a local breeder of <gasp!> Barbie collies, and I liked the looks of them, their temperament and their intelligence (yes, they proved to me that they were also smart.) Plus, the breeder was great, and let me take all the time I needed to interview the pups. She raised them in her house, they were very well socialized, parents had genetic testing, health checks and so on.

So I bought one and he's registered with the <gasp!> AKC of course. Oh noes! Which, of course, makes me persona non gratis on a certain other BC forum I was lurking on for awhile.

That said, I CAN totally understand the problem with the AKC. They HAVE ruined many a breed (including rough collies) so I understand that, but it seems to me there are a lot of people who just want a BC that's intelligent, good temperament, looks a certain way, and they don't want it to herd sheep or to show in conformation. That would be me. I may try to train him for agility, mainly to keep us both active but that's about it. From what I was reading on the 'other forum' they look down on 'sporter collies' such as that (i.e. frisbee, flyball, agility, obedience etc. etc.) Heck, I even saw one thread there where some of them were looking down on people who don't have working farms or ranches and are doing 'performance' herding, showing the same disdain for it as other dog sports.

It starts to get a bit silly, and close minded IMO, after awhile.

I don't know the answer to all this, nor do I claim to, in trying to keep a working line viable within the breed, except that maybe it will have to be accepted there are 2 different lines (and all sorts in between.) I'm sure there are some Barbies that can herd and did read about one doing quite well, even beating dogs from working lines, in a USBCHA trial.

Some how before all this brouhaha, that I had no idea was occuring, I did get a BC, back in 1981, that looked like what I expect a BC to look like and altho I never tried it, she may have been a very capable herder.

Conversely, I've heard of pups coming from working lines that are NOT capable of herding so it works both ways. Having a pup from a working line doesn't guarantee a dog will have the drive & temperament for herding, just like having a barbie collie doesn't mean it's stoopid and can only look pretty.

Offhand, this forum seems a bit more accepting of the fact some people just want a BC for a pet and they aren't horrible people and ruining the breed because they dare to get a 'Barbie' collie and do agility with it. I hope that's the case, because so far I'm very happy with Roly, even if he is disdained by certain groups of BC people. And hopefully, I haven't stepped into a hornet's net with all my blathering, LOL.

[Oenoke]

Hi and welcome.

I have BC's from all the various types, I have a rescue, a 'Barbie Collie, a working line girl and 2 sports bred girls. I compete at agility and flyball.

[blndebmbr]

I can't wait to see a picture of your barbie collie....
regardless, I adore mine, neither registered and both rescues. I doubt we will ever do sheep. But everyone on this board is awesome. We share a love for an amazing breed of dog, and that is all that matters!
Welcome!!

[marylouise]

(03-22-2011 02:51 PM)blndebmbr Wrote:  We share a love for an amazing breed of dog, and that is all that matters!
Welcome!!

think that sums these forums up! my dog is a rescue, border collie x something big! we are just trying our hand at agility but mostly he is just my pet fluff ball

and yes cant wait to see photos!

[Vicky]

Hello and welcome, can't wait to see pictures of your pup, my girls are happy with just chasing a ball, don't get me wrong maybe one day they will do agility, need a bigger garden first!.

[goldcreek]

Welcome! Sounds like you have found a good pup for you. Looking forward to hearing about all your adventures together.

You have covered issues that are sensitive with some people. For me, I really dislike conformation showing, simply because it has become SO competitive that people are breeding specifically for a dog who will WIN, regardless of what the brains of the dog are like or if they really represent what the breed was intended to be, instead just following the trend of the ring. I see no problem in producing quality dogs which also meet the standard. Yet this seems very hard to do, as you have seen with Rough Collies among many others. I try very hard to keep an open mind to different 'types' of BCs. Have you seen Quarter Horses? Talk about a huge range of type! I think the best thing to do is buy a dog who will meet your needs and expectations. And if a person is SO concerned with herding ability disappearing, then they should only breed their herding BC with other good herding BC, simple as that. They don't need to breed to the other types. Breeders will breed for what they want, and buyers should carefully pick the breeder producing the type of dog they like (which it sounds like you have done! good work!). Buy the dog which meets your needs.

I would like to point out that the 'barbie' you mentioned in the USBCHA trial did have her breed championship but was from working bloodlines. She was not from a long line of dogs bred for the show ring alone, which is the definition of 'barbie collie' I believe.

By the way, I have a working bred ABCA girl (the dreaded smooth and leggy type, lol, just the way I like them! My Border Coyote). I have also registered her with <gasp!> the AKC because I want to compete in their sport events.

You will find that we are mostly pretty friendly and accepting. Snarkiness is bad manners.

[Mandy89]

Hi & Welcome I can't wait to see photos of Roly .

[Patti]

(03-22-2011 03:24 PM)goldcreek Wrote:  Welcome! Sounds like you have found a good pup for you. Looking forward to hearing about all your adventures together.

You have covered issues that are sensitive with some people. For me, I really dislike conformation showing, simply because it has become SO competitive that people are breeding specifically for a dog who will WIN, regardless of what the brains of the dog are like or if they really represent what the breed was intended to be, instead just following the trend of the ring. I see no problem in producing quality dogs which also meet the standard. Yet this seems very hard to do, as you have seen with Rough Collies among many others. I try very hard to keep an open mind to different 'types' of BCs. Have you seen Quarter Horses? Talk about a huge range of type! I think the best thing to do is buy a dog who will meet your needs and expectations. And if a person is SO concerned with herding ability disappearing, then they should only breed their herding BC with other good herding BC, simple as that. They don't need to breed to the other types. Breeders will breed for what they want, and buyers should carefully pick the breeder producing the type of dog they like (which it sounds like you have done! good work!). Buy the dog which meets your needs.

I would like to point out that the 'barbie' you mentioned in the USBCHA trial did have her breed championship but was from working bloodlines. She was not from a long line of dogs bred for the show ring alone, which is the definition of 'barbie collie' I believe.

By the way, I have a working bred ABCA girl (the dreaded smooth and leggy type, lol, just the way I like them! My Border Coyote). I have also registered her with <gasp!> the AKC because I want to compete in their sport events.

You will find that we are mostly pretty friendly and accepting. Snarkiness is bad manners.

Thanks much for the welcome!

Yes, I figured as much, as far as sensitive issues. I understand the concern with breeding for JUST conformation, because like you say that's where the problems come from. It needs to be for brains and well as looks. A lot of the dogs in Roly's pedigree have agility and obedience titles, something completely lacking in my rough collies pedigree, so that at least tells you something about brains and trainability, and from what I've seen there are a number of conformation trainers that do get involved in having their dogs compete and excel in such venues. Some even in herding altho I will agree for the most part, the ones bred more specifically for that, are going to be better at it.

Yes, I've seen some Quarter horses that are so muscle bound they look like they could barely move! LOL

I totally agree on getting the right dogs for your needs. Obviously, I don't need a dog that can herd, but yet there are some that think that's exactly the type of dog I should get and if I can't keep it occupied with herding then I shouldn't have a BC at all, at least that's the gist I was getting from some (not all of course.)

This is article I read about the Barbie collie herding.
http://www.astraean.com/borderwars/2008/...eally.html

Somewhere in there I think it was pointed out the dog came from CH parents and by a lot of peoples' definition, that made her a barbie collie. Can't remember the exact quote without sifting through the article though.

That's great, about your 'coyote collie', and I don't mean that at all in a disparaging way. Everyone has their preferences, like you say whichever is the best dog for your needs. I bet she's a lot easier to groom, too. LOL So I envy you there, but I'm just more fond of the furry ones regardless.

Good to hear about the friendliness here etc.

Thanks for the reply.

[Patti]

(03-22-2011 02:50 PM)Oenoke Wrote:  Hi and welcome.

I have BC's from all the various types, I have a rescue, a 'Barbie Collie, a working line girl and 2 sports bred girls. I compete at agility and flyball.

Thanks!

And they're all very nice dogs!! Which one is the 'Barbie'? LOL

Patti

[Patti]

(03-22-2011 02:51 PM)blndebmbr Wrote:  I can't wait to see a picture of your barbie collie....
regardless, I adore mine, neither registered and both rescues. I doubt we will ever do sheep. But everyone on this board is awesome. We share a love for an amazing breed of dog, and that is all that matters!
Welcome!!

Thanks! I totally agree.

Here's a pic when he was around 9 weeks old.

[Patti]

(03-22-2011 03:02 PM)marylouise Wrote:  

(03-22-2011 02:51 PM)blndebmbr Wrote:  We share a love for an amazing breed of dog, and that is all that matters!
Welcome!!

think that sums these forums up! my dog is a rescue, border collie x something big! we are just trying our hand at agility but mostly he is just my pet fluff ball

and yes cant wait to see photos!

Thanks, and I loved my BC mix gal too! Another pic.

[Patti]

(03-22-2011 04:27 PM)Mandy89 Wrote:  Hi & Welcome I can't wait to see photos of Roly .

Thanks everyone for the welcome. Looking forward to sharing and asking questions, I always have something come up it seems!

One more pic and I'll lay off, LOL. He figured out early on he likes sleeping on TOP of his crate as well as inside it.

[blndebmbr]

What a cutie pie....

[Patti]

(03-22-2011 05:30 PM)blndebmbr Wrote:  What a cutie pie....

Thanks! He's bigger now, so I have to get some more up to date pics. Guess I should size them a little smaller, too. Seems like they start out too large, then the forum format resizes them, but even so, that seems a bit annoying when waiting for them to load.

[Patti]

(03-22-2011 03:19 PM)Vicky Wrote:  Hello and welcome, can't wait to see pictures of your pup, my girls are happy with just chasing a ball, don't get me wrong maybe one day they will do agility, need a bigger garden first!.

Thanks, I totally understand, I've never tried agility before so it should be well...'interesting'. LOL

I bought this thing called 'agility in a bag' to get started, but for the most part so far it's been ball and frisbee chasing, while I read through the agility book I bought. He does retrieve really well so far, at least.