Murphy's excitement with other dogs.

[talknerdytome]

I was hoping that some of you might be able to offer your expertise about a behaviour problem we have with Murphy.

Ever since we rescued him last year he has become incredibly excited whenever we see another dog. We use a halti on him when out on walks, I wouldn't usually, but without it he would drag me across the road to greet a dog.

We have tried various things to calm him down. But it's as if he is 0-100 in a split second. His hackles go up and he starts whining/shaking/barking/stamping his feet. obviously people are terrified as they assume he is very aggressive. We have been told to wait until he is calm and then let him greet, but nobody is willing to hang around when he is behaving like that. We were also told to let him just greet every dog & that eventually he wouldn't think other dogs were so exciting, again though, people understandably don't allow him to greet their dogs.

We know nothing about his past, but considering he wasn't walked for over a year, I doubt very much he had any kind of socialisation. We are saving up to get a behaviourist in, but if anybody has any suggestions until then, they would be greatly appreciated!

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[Samwise]

Certainly not expertise, but maybe a suggestion……

This is a difficult catch 22 - while he is on the leash and restricted from greeting another dog, Murphy probably gets frustrated at not being able to do what he wants to, so he gets more and more excited, making things worse each time.
The problem is that other dogs are a novelty - as you say, most probably a result of inadequate socialisation - but he knows he can not get to them so he gets wound up.
With this situation, it seems unlikely that he will calm down when there is another dog nearby and both dogs are kept apart and on leads – the increasing frustration would make him more and more excited.
It may be that, if he could get to the other dog quickly, greet them and see that it was not worth the fuss, then after a few times, he would start to relax and be more patient.
But I understand that he comes across as being too excited for others to go near – this is probably true not just for the other dog owners, but for the other dogs themselves, who may read his body language as aggressive.
In an ideal world, you could keep him on his lead and allow other dogs to come to him – that way you could keep him in check if he did start getting out of hand (at least until he was more used to the interaction and less excitable) - but he could still greet other dogs and not build up frustration.
But this would depend on the other dogs not being intimidated by his behavior and they would need to be not aggressive themselves.

Has he ever been somewhere where he can mix with other dogs off the lead? What is he like when he does mix with other dogs? Is he aggressive or too pushy with them? Does he just want to greet them and play or greet them and then move on? Is there anywhere (a dog training school for example) where you would be able to go, keep him on a lead and allow other (well behaved!) dogs to come up to him?

[Vicky]

Hackles going up aren't a good sign, i do know what you mean about the barking though Holly likes to bark at other dogs but she is all mouth she does this mainly on lead but can do so off lead, which is why i try and only let her met dogs when the owners said's it is ok some people understand and let her get over it and then she loves a play.

[talknerdytome]

Quote:Hackles going up aren't a good sign

Hackles going up are commonly misunderstood as a sign of aggression, it's actually a sign of a rush of adrenaline. His hackles go up when he sees my partner come home or he plays with Rusty. I am 100% he is not going into the situation aggressive. However I am aware that any sort of extreme state (be that nervousness, excitement or aggression) can quickly become aggressive.

Thanks for your advise Samwise. We were actually discussing last night whether or not us keeping him on the lead all the time is contributing to some of the frustration. There is a large National Trust park near us where you can see for miles, so we were thinking of doing some off-lead training with him there. He has been on a long-lead for nearly a year now, and we have done plenty of training with him on that, perhaps we just need a little more faith?

[Vicky]

(08-22-2010 01:49 PM)talknerdytome Wrote:  

Quote:Hackles going up aren't a good sign

Hackles going up are commonly misunderstood as a sign of aggression, it's actually a sign of a rush of adrenaline. His hackles go up when he sees my partner come home or he plays with Rusty. I am 100% he is not going into the situation aggressive. However I am aware that any sort of extreme state (be that nervousness, excitement or aggression) can quickly become aggressive.

Thanks for your advise Samwise. We were actually discussing last night whether or not us keeping him on the lead all the time is contributing to some of the frustration. There is a large National Trust park near us where you can see for miles, so we were thinking of doing some off-lead training with him there. He has been on a long-lead for nearly a year now, and we have done plenty of training with him on that, perhaps we just need a little more faith?

Really are they learn something new today, Bella's hackles always go up around dogs and cats, espically if a dog trys to sniff her bum she hates that!!.

[Samwise]

I do think the off lead training would certainly help, that does sound like a place where he could start learning the set of rules related to being off-lead!
The potential problem is that Murphy is an untried element – his lack of socialization may mean that his “dog manners” are not great. As you know, dogs, being a social species, have certain fairly strict protocols when meeting each other for the first time. A dog that has not learnt the protocols and gets it wrong, runs the risk of being treated with aggression by the other dog – to which the first dog, not aware that he is the offending party, may well react with aggression or just feel he needs to defend himself - a bad experience all round. (Most dogs seem to give pups and youngsters some slack, they can often get away with being incredibly “rude” before being put in their place.)
But most dogs learn fast – they want to avoid aggressive encounters, so quickly learn to approach greetings correctly. Dogs that meet plenty of other dogs with bad manners soon learn to modify their behavior – they don’t just fly off the handle when the first dog comes on too strong or does not show the correct respect. Often dogs at training schools (particularly handler’s dogs) are like that – bomb-proof where other dogs are concerned.
Again, just a suggestion, but do you know anyone that you could get together with at the National Trust park who has dogs that are not likely to be aggressive? If you could get them together, keep Murphy on the lead and let him mix with others off-lead until you are sure of his reaction, this would really help. Once you know he is OK with other strange dogs in that situation, you will have more confidence and he may start to be less desperate about meeting strange dogs.
Obviously bear in mind that the issue he has is common, if he is off-lead, he can’t be allowed to rush up to other strange dogs on the lead unless their owners say it is ok!

[goldcreek]

Sounds like over arousal to me. I would certainly not be allowing him to greet other dogs in that state, you're asking for a blowup. Really, a dog has no business at all greeting other on-leash dogs while you're walking. I would not be letting him offlead in areas where other dogs might show up. If you can't get him to mind you on lead you will have no control once that lead is gone.

I would treat it like any other distraction, you need to train him to pay attention to you and ignore the other dog. I would be seeking out areas with lots of dogs to practice in, such a taking a group training class, so you will have lots of opportunities to practice and he will also grow accustomed to seeing other dogs, the novelty will wear off. This will actually be harder if you only see another dog every once in a while, because then each time it is a big deal. Start at a distance from the other dog that he can handle without blowing up, and gradually increase the challenge by moving closer as he improves. Work on commands he already knows well, praise his good efforts and correct if he ignores you. You must show him you are more interesting than those other dogs and it is worth his while to pay attention to you. If he can't even focus on a simple sit exercise around another dog then move farther away and spend more time working on engagement and attention exercises.